Again- a polite debate [only my side]

I swore I would not write about circumcision anymore but the topic seems to follow me around. Yesterday, a friend posted on fb about the circumcision ban on the ballot in San Francisio. She is Jewish so she sees it as an attack on religious freedom. I can understand why it may be viewed as such but in the internet world of on-line discussion boards it is not about religion but about the American cultural concept of circumcision, the intact penis and sex. Many people who advocate against circumcision are labeled as anti-Semite or penis perverts. People who advocate against INFANT circumcision don’t give a “hoot” what your religion is as long as you respect the rights of your child. Yes, you have to make responsible medical decisions for your child while they are a minor and unable to do so…. however, the supposed benefits of circumcision do not come about until the child reaches sexual maturity. When this child reaches sexual maturity then they can decide for themselves what bodily alteration they may or may not go for. Circumcision is not a medically necessary decision to be made by the parent for most healthy infants and children.

Americans view the circumcised penis as the default setting, as the norm when in fact it is not. A baby boy is not born defective because he has a foreskin. when he is born he is Natural, whole, the default, the norm for our species and circumcision does not make him extra special…. it makes him altered… for better or for worse, he is not as he was born, he is not the default setting.

Americans have a fear of the intact male genitals… like they are going to freaking jump up and bite them…. ewww a turtle neck, ewww a foreskin, ewww extra skin, ewww smegma, ewww eww eww…. I have news for you, it is NOT extra skin. It is normal…. and smegma…. guess what everyone has smegma… especially intact uncircumcised WOMEN. That’s right, WOMEN. So if women have smegma does that make them ewww as well? No? Why? because women wash their genitals? hmmm I’m pretty sure men do to. So since we’ve established that men are no more gross than women [actually women are freaking gross, ever walk into a woman’s public bathroom???] and that both sexes need to wash their genitals lets move to sex.

Sex: {Edited and deleted to be polite} We need to get over our sexual hang ups, practice safe sex, and good hygiene and not cut functioning parts off of our children.

i’ll shut up now and I really don’t want to write on this topic again. i hate this topic. I hate it.

Below is my side of the fb discussion

——————–the discussion on fb:  My side of the discussion to avoid naming people———————

Me:
 I don’t think a ban is the answer. However, I do believe insurance companies should quit covering it and hospital and pediatricians should quit offering it routinely to all infant males.
I understand the religious reasoning for the Jewish and Muslim people however for most non-Jewish American people it is done out of “well daddy is and I think it’s prettier”… For the most part routine infant circumcision is cosmetic surgery on a minor for no reason. All the medical reasoning is either light weight or exaggerated.
I know we won’t agree.
I don’t think a ban is the answer but really it’s not a religious persecution issue. Many people, even men, see it as a violation of their body…. Especially when they aren’t Jewish or Muslim
I can respect the religious reasoning, but not the non-religious reasoning
I understand G-d instructed the Jewish people to do so.
However, for Christians, it is not religiously mandated
—————-
Me:
We will have to agree to disagree….
To me it is cosmetic only… Possible life long nerve damage, possible hemorrhage, possible life long painful erection of too much skin is removed and the fact that it is not my genitals or my sex life that will be effected if things go wrong are very good cons to circumcision of infants.
The possible benefits are for adults who are sexually active and who can make sexually mature decisions about their sex life and sexual hygiene. Whether they as men decide to chop it off or use soap.
Condoms prevent STDs. Good sexual behaviors and good hygiene make got a good life.
Circumcised or not a man needs to take care of himself.
I will teach my intact sons proper care. If they don’t follow proper care then there are consequences… That is reality for both uncircumcised and circumcised. The USA has a very high STD rate and a very high Circ rate so I’d say circumcision doesn’t prevent STDs.
______________
me:
I can understand how it feels like a personal religious attack. But many people see it as fighting for the rights of the child. The issue isn’t about religion or the rights of the parents, it’s about the rights of the child to have all the healthy body parts he/she is born with.
————
me:
We already ban female circumcision. Any type, even just a pin prick on the vulva/vagina/clitoris is not allowed. Equal protection under the law should be for both males and females.
——————-
me:
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/Equal_protection
The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution prohibits states from denying any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. See U.S. Const. amend. XIV. In other words, the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances. A violation would occur, for example, if a state prohibited an individual from entering into an employment contract because he or she was a member of a particular race. The equal protection clause is not intended to provide “equality” among individuals or classes but only “equal application” of the laws. The result, therefore, of a law is not relevant so long as there is no discrimination in its application. By denying states the ability to discriminate, the equal protection clause of the Constitution is crucial to the protection of civil rights.See Civil Rights.
———————–
me:
However, if someone is a practicing Jew or Muslim I think their should be room for religious exemption BUT I do not think that babies should be subjected to circumcision for invalid reasons especially if the parents are not fully informed on the possible outcomes…. Children have been permanently injured or died from complications from circumcision. Though complications are rare, it was a needless death or maiming.I don’t argue the religious reasons. That is between each person and G-d, I argue the American cultural reasons and the bogus medical reasons to circumcise a newborn infant.
———————
me:
Most American parents don’t circumcise for religious reasons…. And being Christian, of non-Jewish origin, [meaning not genetically or culturally Jewish] is not a legitimate religious excuse to circumcise.
I do understand that many do not know exactly what circumcision entails and many moms I’ve come across never read up on it, never researched it and just handed their kid over to the dr at 2 days old because they thought all boys got it done, like the cutting of the umbilical cord. Many people don’t realize that the foreskin serves a purpose in protecting the penis-especially in the baby yrs- from bacteria and infections and in the sexual yrs by keeping the penis healthy.
I’ve been researching this and been on discussion boards for 4 yrs. Many parents say they just did it because they didn’t know anyone who hadn’t…. And to me personally that isn’t a valid reason to alter your child and possibly injure him.
I understand that to some that is worth the risk and also to some it is a risk to take because it is for G-d. But I think for the majority American cultural conformity takes over and takes precedence over our children.I hope I am not bring disrespectful. This is a subject I feel very strongly against. I am not an anti-Semite, I just don’t agree with the procedure, especially with the way the American culture views the male anatomy as fundamentally flawed and ugly.
Respectfully,
———————–
me:
Just because we are allowed to do something doesn’t make it fundamentally right.
 I already agreed that a ban was not the answer. Simply make it to where insurance doesn’t cover it. Then if people really want it, well then they really have to pay for it.
PLEASE EXCUSE TYPOS, I FORGOT TO PROOF READ
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